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What do you think of Evolution?
05-27-2011, 04:05 AM
Post: #1
What do you think of Evolution?
Do you think that evolution is not the correct idea to how all life on Earth became what it is today (or what it was 20,000 years ago, etc)?

If not, why did God go out of his way to place all the millions of fossils in the ground; fossils of animals that never lived, depending on your idea of the amount of time the Earth has existed? Not only placing them in the ground, he made sure not to place one, just one, in a fossil layer (period of time) it didn’t belong to. Beyond the fossils, he meticulously placed all the creatures of a similar lineage near each others. Unique plants and animals on secluded islands, islands that were within range for seeds/eggs/animals to survive the travel in the ocean or on birds have those life forms, but the ones too far don’t. To quote Richard Dawkins,


Quote:“Evolution is easily tested. Show me fossil remains of a cat or dog in a pre-Cambrian layer of rock. Show me any life form on Earth that does not share half of its DNA with single-celled yeast. This would convince any rational person that evolution is wrong. The recent finds of Tiktaalik and human chromosome number 2 are very powerful tests of evolution and both confirmed evolution.”

The answer that he is God and God is perfect does not suffice, not even close; this is a level of perfection that God has never obtained before. He has made many, many mistakes; don’t take my word for it read the bible. Things like creating a male and female of all creatures but forgetting the female for human beings at the very end and having to make if from Adam’s rib. There are tons more, but I don’t want to digress too far. You can read my other posts about his mistakes. Was he trying to trick us? Or more plausibly, he spread a logical puzzle that we wouldn’t be able to solve until we became intelligent and advanced enough to use science instead of relying on the writings and word of mouth ‘Religions’ that an uncivilized culture would hold as true.
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05-28-2011, 12:20 AM
Post: #2
RE: What do you think of Evolution?
Evolution is pretty much indisputable, but it has little to do with explaining the origin of life. Also, the adam's rib woman origin story is the story of jews in paticular and not the story of man's origin. It's the story of a tribe, not of man in general. Closer reading of genisis will show that there was others beside adam, eve and their children.
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05-28-2011, 07:30 AM
Post: #3
RE: What do you think of Evolution?
(05-28-2011 12:20 AM)jefffsr Wrote:  Evolution is pretty much indisputable, but it has little to do with explaining the origin of life. Also, the adam's rib woman origin story is the story of jews in paticular and not the story of man's origin. It's the story of a tribe, not of man in general. Closer reading of genisis will show that there was others beside adam, eve and their children.

Yes, evolution is more proven than most any other scientific theory, by far! Except if you happen to live in America where ignorance and religious dogma has bread some kind of messed up idea/belief that 'evolution is the Devils work, created to deceive people and lead them away from God.'

Of course the Genesis story isn't the only one, although I think it is pretty popular. Correct me if I'm wrong but don't the Christian/Catholic, Islamic, and Jewish faiths all start with it? Never the less, there are tons more, from small tribes to very large cultures, that all have a somewhat unique idea of how life began. But the one thing that they all seem to have in common is that they were created by a people with an emerging consciousness that were smart enough to know there had to be a starting point but not smart enough to study or test their theories.

My personal #1 reason that I don't like religion is because I like knowledge! And Religion suppresses knowledge; not just the knowledge unfortunately, but it suppresses the entire drive to understand.
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05-28-2011, 09:15 AM
Post: #4
RE: What do you think of Evolution?
Yes. Evolution is indisputable.

The Genesis story is part of the literature of the three faiths that trace their roots to Abraham (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam). Most of the writings of the other ancient religions also include stories of the origin of the world and of humankind. It's in that context--a religious description of origins--that the Genesis story should be understood. The story was probably first written in 1000 BCE and includes threads from different oral traditions. No one was present taking notes when the world began.

It's unfortunate that many Christians see evolution as a threat to their religion. It doesn't need to be. It's only a threat when the Bible is read quite literally and with modern standards for judging the veracity of what is written. I find no conflict between my firm conviction that God created (and continues to create) the world, on one hand, and the emerging understanding of evolution through new scientific discoveries on the other.
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05-28-2011, 10:53 AM
Post: #5
RE: What do you think of Evolution?
(05-28-2011 09:15 AM)ThinkingChristian Wrote:  It's only a threat when the Bible is read quite literally and with modern standards for judging the veracity of what is written.

When your at church, does the pastor, after reading a segment from whatever book of the bible he is preaching about on that day, does he pause and point out that the bible should not be taken literally?

I have been to a great many churches throughout America and Mexico, and I have yet to hear any preacher or other guiding member of the congregation say something like, Jesus rising from the dead after three days, should not be taken literally. Although they should because it make it all a bit more believable especially with all dead that rose with him (or depending what book, ie Mathew, Mark, Luke or John, all the dead that rose from their graves when he died.)

There are some people who use the bible as a guide, omitting the bad and trying to live a good life based on the 'good or moral' parts of it. But this not a lot, most people I meet believe the Bible is the ABSOLUTE word of God, and should be taken literally and followed entirely.

If you want to live a good and moral life, and raise your children up likewise, you don't need the Bible. The incredibly few parts of it that are moral, are in no way unique to the bible, and they are overshadowed by the horatius-ness of the the rest of its stories.

Event the Decalogue (ten commandments) are a poor list of the top 10 things to live by.

My personal #1 reason that I don't like religion is because I like knowledge! And Religion suppresses knowledge; not just the knowledge unfortunately, but it suppresses the entire drive to understand.
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05-28-2011, 12:04 PM
Post: #6
RE: What do you think of Evolution?
First, let me address the moral life part of your argument. Here I think we're closer to agreement Although there are many, moral directives in the Bible, I don't see the Bible as primarily a book about morality. Jesus life and preaching was judged by his contemporaries as being radically immoral at times. The Decalogue in essence is not much different from the Hammurabi Code or any of the other ancient directives for right living. The Bible is a book that reveals God to humans. In the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament), that's done mostly by following the life of the Hebrew people. The over-arching message there is: God remains faithful to the people that God has chosen. The New Testament follows the life of Jesus and the church that grew up as a result of his life on earth. The message there is almost the same: God remains faithful to the entire world that God has created.

So, here's where I suspect you and I will most likely disagree. Jesus came to earth as a human being but always was and always will be God. As a human, it was necessary for Jesus to die. As God, Jesus' conquered the power of death over the life of the world. I think that much of the Bible--some would say most--should be read metaphorically. And I don't have any difficulty with saying that all of those dead people who came out of the graves was metaphor. However, I can't take that to the point of saying that Jesus' bodily resurrection is also metaphor. The gospel writers go to great lengths to show evidence (anecdotal, not scientific) that Jesus actually walked around on the earth after his resurrection. I continue to believe that Jesus rose from the dead bodily. That can't be proven. It's unreasonable but I believe it based on my faith and a reading of the Bible based on that faith not a reading that says every word is literally true.
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05-28-2011, 12:37 PM
Post: #7
RE: What do you think of Evolution?
Like you pointed out, I don't agree with the second part of what you said. Not in the sense that it is wrong, it is your interpretation of the text. It is similar to an answer I would get from any member of my family, it's probably even close to what I thought before I stopped believing there is a God who looks over us and cares about us. (It wasn't until years later that I, almost completely, gave up hope of there even being a God.)

Not to put words in your mouth, but you believe a lot of what you do because you have faith, right? It is hard to debate past 'faith,' not that either of us have to, you have laid out your thoughts very methodically, and I think we have come to an impasse on this subject. I believe the stories in the bible where created by the legends and minds of a less informed people. There is probably no defining proof for either of our views.

On a slightly different subject, are your beliefs the same as your parents? Not down to every detail, but I'm asking if you were brought up in the same belief system that you believe today?

My personal #1 reason that I don't like religion is because I like knowledge! And Religion suppresses knowledge; not just the knowledge unfortunately, but it suppresses the entire drive to understand.
http://www.EvilTheists.com
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05-28-2011, 05:14 PM (This post was last modified: 05-28-2011 05:16 PM by ThinkingChristian.)
Post: #8
RE: What do you think of Evolution?
(05-28-2011 12:37 PM)Garrett Fogerlie Wrote:  Not to put words in your mouth, but you believe a lot of what you do because you have faith, right? It is hard to debate past 'faith,' not that either of us have to, you have laid out your thoughts very methodically, and I think we have come to an impasse on this subject. I believe the stories in the bible where created by the legends and minds of a less informed people. There is probably no defining proof for either of our views.

On a slightly different subject, are your beliefs the same as your parents? Not down to every detail, but I'm asking if you were brought up in the same belief system that you believe today?

My parents beliefs were much more conservative. They tended more toward. "if that's what the Bible says then it must be so." My parents died 30 years ago and, although much of my divergence from their beliefs had begun before they died, I never had a conversation with them about these things. I'm not sure where we would be in understanding each other had they lived longer and had we discussed these issues.

Regarding my beliefs and faith, you're right about the impasse. However, I don't equate faith with certitude. In fact, I see faith as being much closer to doubt than certitude. And so, even though we have no need to convince each other that our respective views should prevail, nevertheless, hearing your views helps me examine what I believe. Since most of my life is centered in the church, most of the folks I associate with hold the same views as mine (actually most hold much more conservative views than mine). I don't believe that my set of beliefs should be stagnant. So it is not my intent to trump the discussion by playing the faith card. Too many Christians do that as a substitute for thinking.
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05-30-2011, 06:17 AM
Post: #9
RE: What do you think of Evolution?
It depends on which evolution you are talking about. Islam does not believe that humans have been evolve from Apes. And hindu's does not believe in quran. Islam believes that God created the whole universe while other people does not ready to believe it.

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06-09-2011, 04:43 PM
Post: #10
RE: What do you think of Evolution?
I'm talking about evolution in general, not micro or macro or some other creation idea. Just plain minor modification over immense time. The scientific fact of how life began.

My personal #1 reason that I don't like religion is because I like knowledge! And Religion suppresses knowledge; not just the knowledge unfortunately, but it suppresses the entire drive to understand.
http://www.EvilTheists.com
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