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Prove God exists without using the bible or faith
05-27-2011, 01:22 PM (This post was last modified: 05-27-2011 01:24 PM by Garrett Fogerlie.)
Post: #1
Prove God exists without using the bible or faith
Can you offer any proof that God actually exists without saying it says so in the bible or you gotta have faith then he will show himself.

The answer that we exist so therefore God is real, and answers like this are not in anyway even close to proof.

And why is believing in God so important, and a requirement to being saved? What does that have to do with anything? Believing in God as a requirement to be saved is such a juvenile idea that it is hard to think of any other reason for it other then to budge (or force) people to accept your religion. The fact that believing in a God will save your eternal life is not an idea that any all knowing, powerful, and loving God should require!

My personal #1 reason that I don't like religion is because I like knowledge! And Religion suppresses knowledge; not just the knowledge unfortunately, but it suppresses the entire drive to understand.
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05-27-2011, 04:18 PM
Post: #2
RE: Prove God exists without using the bible or faith
We don't need to prove there are no gods just like we don't have to prove there are no fairies , all the work is to be done by those who claim they have special knowledge of a divine power.
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05-27-2011, 08:31 PM
Post: #3
RE: Prove God exists without using the bible or faith
(05-27-2011 01:22 PM)Garrett Wrote:  Can you offer any proof that God actually exists without saying it says so in the bible or you gotta have faith then he will show himself.

The answer that we exist so therefore God is real, and answers like this are not in anyway even close to proof.

And why is believing in God so important, and a requirement to being saved? What does that have to do with anything? Believing in God as a requirement to be saved is such a juvenile idea that it is hard to think of any other reason for it other then to budge (or force) people to accept your religion. The fact that believing in a God will save your eternal life is not an idea that any all knowing, powerful, and loving God should require!

Hi everybody! I think it depends on what your god is. Many people's god is money (including christians). Maybe I should say that it depends on what you define god as being. If you say god is a white haired, beared man in the sky than yeah good luck proving that.
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05-28-2011, 08:53 AM
Post: #4
RE: Prove God exists without using the bible or faith
(05-27-2011 01:22 PM)Garrett Wrote:  Can you offer any proof that God actually exists without saying it says so in the bible or you gotta have faith then he will show himself.

The answer that we exist so therefore God is real, and answers like this are not in anyway even close to proof.

And why is believing in God so important, and a requirement to being saved? What does that have to do with anything? Believing in God as a requirement to be saved is such a juvenile idea that it is hard to think of any other reason for it other then to budge (or force) people to accept your religion. The fact that believing in a God will save your eternal life is not an idea that any all knowing, powerful, and loving God should require!

I agree. The existence of God has no proof that will withstand the rigor of scientific investigation. And if "believing in God" means intellectual assent to some set of doctrinal statements, then it has nothing to do with eternal life. A loving God could not require that which many are incapable of providing (children, those with limited mental capabilities, those who have never heard the doctrines).

Eternal life rests not on what I do but on what God has done for me. It's a matter of faith (trust in God, not intellectual assent to doctrine.)
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05-28-2011, 11:17 AM
Post: #5
RE: Prove God exists without using the bible or faith
(05-28-2011 08:53 AM)ThinkingChristian Wrote:  I agree. The existence of God has no proof that will withstand the rigor of scientific investigation. And if "believing in God" means intellectual assent to some set of doctrinal statements, then it has nothing to do with eternal life. A loving God could not require that which many are incapable of providing (children, those with limited mental capabilities, those who have never heard the doctrines).

Eternal life rests not on what I do but on what God has done for me. It's a matter of faith (trust in God, not intellectual assent to doctrine.)

Well said, although I don't agree with the last bit.

My personal #1 reason that I don't like religion is because I like knowledge! And Religion suppresses knowledge; not just the knowledge unfortunately, but it suppresses the entire drive to understand.
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05-28-2011, 12:52 PM
Post: #6
RE: Prove God exists without using the bible or faith
(05-28-2011 08:53 AM)ThinkingChristian Wrote:  
(05-27-2011 01:22 PM)Garrett Wrote:  Can you offer any proof that God actually exists without saying it says so in the bible or you gotta have faith then he will show himself.

The answer that we exist so therefore God is real, and answers like this are not in anyway even close to proof.

And why is believing in God so important, and a requirement to being saved? What does that have to do with anything? Believing in God as a requirement to be saved is such a juvenile idea that it is hard to think of any other reason for it other then to budge (or force) people to accept your religion. The fact that believing in a God will save your eternal life is not an idea that any all knowing, powerful, and loving God should require!

I agree. The existence of God has no proof that will withstand the rigor of scientific investigation. And if "believing in God" means intellectual assent to some set of doctrinal statements, then it has nothing to do with eternal life. A loving God could not require that which many are incapable of providing (children, those with limited mental capabilities, those who have never heard the doctrines).

Eternal life rests not on what I do but on what God has done for me. It's a matter of faith (trust in God, not intellectual assent to doctrine.)

It does say in the question to prove existence without using the bible or faith . Where did you get your personal knowledge of god , how he thinks and knowledge of eternal life ? If you say it is personal revelation then why is god not telling me these amazing facts too ?
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05-28-2011, 02:21 PM
Post: #7
RE: Prove God exists without using the bible or faith
(05-28-2011 12:52 PM)Martinuk Wrote:  If you say it is personal revelation then why is god not telling me these amazing facts too ?

On that note, I also like to point out to people that say they communicate with God and that is God is really talking to them and they hear what he says. If you want to convince me of that, ask him to tell you something that only I know like what my pin code to my bank account, etc.

It's not 100% proof, but it sure would aid me in believing you're not nuts.

My personal #1 reason that I don't like religion is because I like knowledge! And Religion suppresses knowledge; not just the knowledge unfortunately, but it suppresses the entire drive to understand.
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05-28-2011, 06:11 PM (This post was last modified: 05-28-2011 06:12 PM by ThinkingChristian.)
Post: #8
RE: Prove God exists without using the bible or faith
(05-28-2011 12:52 PM)Martinuk Wrote:  
(05-28-2011 08:53 AM)ThinkingChristian Wrote:  [quote='Garrett' pid='12' dateline='1306527722']
Can you offer any proof that God actually exists without saying it says so in the bible or you gotta have faith then he will show himself.

It does say in the question to prove existence without using the bible or faith . Where did you get your personal knowledge of god , how he thinks and knowledge of eternal life ? If you say it is personal revelation then why is god not telling me these amazing facts too ?

If you're looking for empirical evidence that God exists (including evidence like the bank account PIN in Garrett's post below), that will never happen. My position is that, in the Bible, God is revealed to me but it's only when I approach the Bible through the lens of faith (trust in God) that it begins to make sense. That said, I don't think that faith asks us to ignore reason and science and all of the other accumulation of human knowledge.

For me, the existence of God is demonstrated (not proven) by my need and the need of others that I know to find meaning in life. I need to see an ultimate purpose for my existence. I think that's the reason for all religions. As a Christian, I find that meaning through the God revealed through a faith-filled reading of the Bible. That's not to imply God whispering some secret knowledge in my ear.
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05-29-2011, 04:12 PM
Post: #9
RE: Prove God exists without using the bible or faith
(05-28-2011 06:11 PM)ThinkingChristian Wrote:  
(05-28-2011 12:52 PM)Martinuk Wrote:  
(05-28-2011 08:53 AM)ThinkingChristian Wrote:  [quote='Garrett' pid='12' dateline='1306527722']
Can you offer any proof that God actually exists without saying it says so in the bible or you gotta have faith then he will show himself.

It does say in the question to prove existence without using the bible or faith . Where did you get your personal knowledge of god , how he thinks and knowledge of eternal life ? If you say it is personal revelation then why is god not telling me these amazing facts too ?

If you're looking for empirical evidence that God exists (including evidence like the bank account PIN in Garrett's post below), that will never happen. My position is that, in the Bible, God is revealed to me but it's only when I approach the Bible through the lens of faith (trust in God) that it begins to make sense. That said, I don't think that faith asks us to ignore reason and science and all of the other accumulation of human knowledge.

For me, the existence of God is demonstrated (not proven) by my need and the need of others that I know to find meaning in life. I need to see an ultimate purpose for my existence. I think that's the reason for all religions. As a Christian, I find that meaning through the God revealed through a faith-filled reading of the Bible. That's not to imply God whispering some secret knowledge in my ear.
First, ThinkingChristian, thanks for taking on a reasonable debate.

But I would say, if you are going to use the Bible as the thing that God is using to reveal himself to you, why did you choose that over the Koran or the Bhagavad Gita? Probably because you were born in the US right? Or did you give those others equal consideration in your search for God?

On another note, I don't really get the need for people to have some sort of external source of meaning or purpose for your life. I believe that intelligent life here on earth is simply due to a bit of happenstance and that my conscience will cease to exist upon my death. And I am totally fine with that. Why? Because I had the chance to live. Its an exclusive club. I've had a few decades worth of it. More than a lot who also had a chance to live. Why do I need a god to give meaning to that? It has meaning unto itself.

So in the end, you can approach the bible on faith, but I don't think that is enough. The bible does need to stand up to the claims of science, which I do not think it does. The bible presents God as being a logical being who derived order in the universe. So if he created all that order in a way that seems to exclude him, that's kind of messed up given that he sends all those who don't believe in him to hell.
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05-29-2011, 04:32 PM
Post: #10
RE: Prove God exists without using the bible or faith
(05-29-2011 04:12 PM)CNR Wrote:  On another note, I don't really get the need for people to have some sort of external source of meaning or purpose for your life. I believe that intelligent life here on earth is simply due to a bit of happenstance and that my conscience will cease to exist upon my death. And I am totally fine with that. Why? Because I had the chance to live. Its an exclusive club. I've had a few decades worth of it. More than a lot who also had a chance to live. Why do I need a god to give meaning to that? It has meaning unto itself.

So in the end, you can approach the bible on faith, but I don't think that is enough. The bible does need to stand up to the claims of science, which I do not think it does. The bible presents God as being a logical being who derived order in the universe. So if he created all that order in a way that seems to exclude him, that's kind of messed up given that he sends all those who don't believe in him to hell.

Not only the we (or at least me, and your just my imagination) lucky enough to exist, be were lucky enough to belong to a species that has the intelligence and ability to understand it exists, and in a time period where we can ponder it because our time isn't totally spent trying to eat and survive.

ThinkingChristian seems like the type who has really though and studied their faith, and possibly others, although probably not with the vigor that they put into their own. Thats why he/she doesn't take the bible as literal and could give a descent reason for why they believe. You don't find a lot of people other than pastors, that have really studied the whole Bible and would still say it is the "Literal Word of God."

However like you said, CNR, if they were born in an Islamic family and Muslim culture, their screen name would probably be ThinkingIslam (possibly not with the Thinking part if they were unlucky enough to be born a female in that culture)

My personal #1 reason that I don't like religion is because I like knowledge! And Religion suppresses knowledge; not just the knowledge unfortunately, but it suppresses the entire drive to understand.
http://www.EvilTheists.com
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