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Are humans the only creatures that get an extra life?
05-29-2011, 10:46 PM
Post: #1
Are humans the only creatures that get an extra life?
Are humans the only creatures that get an extra life? Where do you draw the line? Do your pets get eternal life after physical death? Do other animals? Do insects and plants? Where do you draw the line?

The usual reply to this is that we have a soul, and that lives on. Other than consciously fearing death, what differentiates us from other creatures? Morality, no, other species have morality. Some understanding of death? No, other creatures have enough understanding to bury their dead and even return, years later to feel their bones for hours.

What about pre-humans? What we consider Humans today is just a very long cycle of mothers giving birth that can be traced back through Neanderthal, Homo erectus, Homo habilis and so on (Or if you were unlucky like myself, and went to a religious school, an ape shat out a Human.) We label them by drastic changes but drastic changes are the sum of small changes, so I'm asking when did humans achieve the ability (or at least in your view, when did God deem them worthy and grant them) eternal life? Perhaps 2000-ish years ago when the Bible says the Holly Spirit entered them? Personally this kinda sucks for all the faithful, God fearing and good people before then.

But whats your view? Since it is your belief that there is an eternal life, after all.

My personal #1 reason that I don't like religion is because I like knowledge! And Religion suppresses knowledge; not just the knowledge unfortunately, but it suppresses the entire drive to understand.
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05-30-2011, 06:58 AM
Post: #2
RE: Are humans the only creatures that get an extra life?
This idea would also suggest that during the development of the human species that , due to natural selection and mutation , that one day we were human in the sense we understand today...so....does this mean that this "first" ever human HAD an eternal soul ... BUT... it's parents didn't !!??.
By the way if there is any doubt , the Roman Catholic Church accepted the fact of evolution many years ago , that's several billion believers if you didn't know.
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05-31-2011, 03:25 AM
Post: #3
RE: Are humans the only creatures that get an extra life?
I'm not sure if catholic members accept everything the church does but who knows i'm not catholic. It would be funny though one day you could be protesting something like gay rights then pope says its ok so the next day your just fine with it.
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07-26-2011, 02:46 PM
Post: #4
RE: Are humans the only creatures that get an extra life?
(05-31-2011 03:25 AM)vivapaco Wrote:  I'm not sure if catholic members accept everything the church does but who knows i'm not catholic. It would be funny though one day you could be protesting something like gay rights then pope says its ok so the next day your just fine with it.

Some sectors of Anglicanism "in isolation of the whole" have approved the ordination of openly active homosexuals to the priesthood and episcopacy, not sure the Archbishop of Canterbury would be chuffed though !! The pope would def not be amused ...
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08-14-2011, 08:47 AM (This post was last modified: 08-14-2011 08:49 AM by Piranhapoodle.)
Post: #5
RE: Are humans the only creatures that get an extra life?
(05-29-2011 10:46 PM)Garrett Fogerlie Wrote:  Are humans the only creatures that get an extra life? Where do you draw the line? Do your pets get eternal life after physical death? Do other animals? Do insects and plants? Where do you draw the line?

The usual reply to this is that we have a soul, and that lives on. Other than consciously fearing death, what differentiates us from other creatures? Morality, no, other species have morality. Some understanding of death? No, other creatures have enough understanding to bury their dead and even return, years later to feel their bones for hours.

What about pre-humans? What we consider Humans today is just a very long cycle of mothers giving birth that can be traced back through Neanderthal, Homo erectus, Homo habilis and so on (Or if you were unlucky like myself, and went to a religious school, an ape shat out a Human.) We label them by drastic changes but drastic changes are the sum of small changes, so I'm asking when did humans achieve the ability (or at least in your view, when did God deem them worthy and grant them) eternal life? Perhaps 2000-ish years ago when the Bible says the Holly Spirit entered them? Personally this kinda sucks for all the faithful, God fearing and good people before then.

But whats your view? Since it is your belief that there is an eternal life, after all.

I believe in an afterlife and I'm a bit christian so here's what I think:

Beings that can choose to do either good or bad deeds will have an afterlife in which these deeds have certain consequences. Good and bad will have to be defined, so I define good deeds as deeds that are in accordance with the purpose for which a conscious and free being is created. The more someone is aware of this purpose, either though his conscience or through knowledge, the more someone is accountable for his deeds.

An exception to this rule might be promises by God to one's offspring. This might make you part of a group that gets an afterlife, even if you're a newborn infant or a heavily retarded person. (Children actually pose almost the exact same problem as human predecessors you mentioned in your post.)

These criteria mean that an afterlife is not only for humans, but also for, say, intelligent extraterrestrials, Neanderthals, and even for species that may become intelligent in the future. I guess my ideas are in line with the Bible, like the story of Eden and the notion that everybody shall reap what they sow.
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08-14-2011, 11:39 AM
Post: #6
RE: Are humans the only creatures that get an extra life?
(08-14-2011 08:47 AM)Piranhapoodle Wrote:  Good and bad will have to be defined, so I define good deeds as deeds that are in accordance with the purpose for which a conscious and free being is created. The more someone is aware of this purpose, either though his conscience or through knowledge, the more someone is accountable for his deeds.
...
These criteria mean that an afterlife is not only for humans, but also for, say, intelligent extraterrestrials, Neanderthals, and even for species that may become intelligent in the future.

That is a fairly unique answer to the question. So you base the possibility of afterlife on consciousness or the level of consciousness. You mentioned in your introduction that you are about to get your degree in human movement sciences (congrats!) so you are probably more knowledgeable on this subject than I am, but do you consider other animals to have a consciousness? Like dogs, dolphins, or my favorite, elephants?

I personally don't believe in an afterlife, not like the one described in the bible and if there is a more Buddhist type afterlife I consider it irrelevant since the two don't seem to transfer knowledge. Therefor I don't think there is some grand punishment for evil, however I live my live with the motto that I can do whatever I want as long as it doesn't interfere with someone else's ability to do the same. To me this covers the main laws of society, like my freedom to swing my arm stops at a person's nose.

(08-14-2011 08:47 AM)Piranhapoodle Wrote:  An exception to this rule might be promises by God to one's offspring. This might make you part of a group that gets an afterlife, even if you're a newborn infant or a heavily retarded person.

I'm not sure how you get here, unless only as a way to justify what is in the bible. Is that what you mean, and other child like conscious beings are also included, not just the ones mentioned in the bible? That is to say that there is an afterlife for conscious beings along with God's promises.

My personal #1 reason that I don't like religion is because I like knowledge! And Religion suppresses knowledge; not just the knowledge unfortunately, but it suppresses the entire drive to understand.
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08-17-2011, 05:06 AM (This post was last modified: 08-17-2011 05:08 AM by Piranhapoodle.)
Post: #7
RE: Are humans the only creatures that get an extra life?
Garrett Fogerlie Wrote:That is a fairly unique answer to the question. So you base the possibility of afterlife on consciousness or the level of consciousness. You mentioned in your introduction that you are about to get your degree in human movement sciences (congrats!) so you are probably more knowledgeable on this subject than I am, but do you consider other animals to have a consciousness? Like dogs, dolphins, or my favorite, elephants?

I personally don't believe in an afterlife, not like the one described in the bible and if there is a more Buddhist type afterlife I consider it irrelevant since the two don't seem to transfer knowledge. Therefore I don't think there is some grand punishment for evil, however I live my live with the motto that I can do whatever I want as long as it doesn't interfere with someone else's ability to do the same. To me this covers the main laws of society, like my freedom to swing my arm stops at a person's nose.

I don't think it's very unique or strange. It's just the logical consequence of saying that justice will be done to all. So when one is capable of doing unjust or just deeds, one is capable of receiving consequences. This is what most religions endorse and it fits the way I feel things are supposed to be.
I don't know much about such animals. Perhaps in a very basic way, some can already commit unjust deeds.

I also like the idea of some form of reincarnation. What if the universe is emerging and collapsing over and over forever. That could mean that there will once be a universe that is exactly like this one, so we live exactly the same lives again and again... (Isn't this from K-pax?)

Quote:
(08-14-2011 08:47 AM)Piranhapoodle Wrote:  An exception to this rule might be promises by God to one's offspring. This might make you part of a group that gets an afterlife, even if you're a newborn infant or a heavily retarded person.

I'm not sure how you get here, unless only as a way to justify what is in the bible. Is that what you mean, and other child like conscious beings are also included, not just the ones mentioned in the bible? That is to say that there is an afterlife for conscious beings along with God's promises.

Yes it's from the bible, but with the criteria I give I think there is room for exceptions like that. It would be kind of strange to say that a baby is not part of our community until it becomes wise. Maybe we should see conscious beings more as a whole people and not so much as a sum of individuals. After all, what we do influences the others around us to a huge extent.
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03-28-2012, 02:56 AM
Post: #8
RE: Are humans the only creatures that get an extra life?
I'm not sure how you get here, unless only as a way to justify what is in the bible. Is that what you mean, Lunettes De Soleil Pas Cherand other child like conscious beings are also included, not just the ones mentioned in the bible? That is to say that there is an afterlife for conscious beings along with God's promises.

Armani
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06-11-2012, 01:57 AM (This post was last modified: 06-11-2012 01:58 AM by dfdfd.)
Post: #9
RE: Are humans the only creatures that get an extra life?
These criteria mean that an afterlife is not only for humans, but also for, say, intelligent extraterrestrials, Neanderthals, and even for species that may become intelligent in the future. I guess my ideas are in line with the Bible, like the story of Eden and the notion that everybody shall reap what they sow.

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06-28-2012, 08:39 PM
Post: #10
RE: Are humans the only creatures that get an extra life?
(05-29-2011 10:46 PM)Garrett Fogerlie Wrote:  Are humans the only creatures that get an extra life? Where do you draw the line? Do your pets get eternal life after physical death? Do other animals? Do insects and plants? Where do you draw the line? ...

That question can only be answered if one accepts the idea that humans "get an extra life." Not everyone accepts this idea.

Ludwik Kowalski

Ludwik Kowalski (see Wikipedia) is the author of a FREE ON-LINE autobiography, entitled “Diary of a Former Communist: Thoughts, Feelings, Reality.”

http://csam.montclair.edu/~kowalski/life/intro.html

It is a based on a diary kept between 1946 and 2004 (in the USSR, Poland, France and the USA).
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